Hi Tim,<br>Thanks for trying to know the truth about this question. <br>I have a direct contact by ExtJS: Abraham Elias, the ExtJS CEO, so I would be happy to transfer him this question on behalf of the GeoExt PSC.<br>Cédric<br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 10:46 PM, Tim Schaub <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:tschaub@opengeo.org">tschaub@opengeo.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Hey-<br>
<br>
Thanks for the response. A bit more below.<br>
<div class="im"><br>
Eric Lemoine wrote:<br>
> Thanks Tim.<br>
><br>
> Regarding the first question: maybe we could be more explicit.<br>
> Currently the question is: "is the application provider responsible<br>
> for more than incuding...?". Could we add something like "For example,<br>
> is the application provider supposed to (do this and this)?". This is<br>
> to make it clear where we're coming from. Makes sense?<br>
><br>
<br>
</div>Yeah, I agree it should be more specific. How about this:<br>
<br>
If an application includes a script that is a minified version of the<br>
Ext source and is not produced by the Ext build tools* (e.g. minified<br>
with YUICompressor), I assume this is considered "Conveying Non-Source<br>
Forms" and not "Conveying Modified Source Versions" under GPL v3. Is<br>
this assumption correct?<br>
<br>
If so, the GPL says the object code provider must also convey the<br>
machine-readable source. One of the ways this can be done is to offer<br>
access to the source from a designated place (point 6.d). Is it enough<br>
for the application provider to include a notice in the minified code<br>
that references the license and gives instruction to download the source<br>
from Ext? I'm assuming the application provider doesn't have to provide<br>
access to anything else themselves (e.g. the tools used to minify the<br>
source or the source itself).<br>
<br>
* <a href="http://extjs.com/products/extjs/build/" target="_blank">http://extjs.com/products/extjs/build/</a><br>
<div class="im"><br>
<br>
> The rest looks perfect to me.<br>
><br>
> [In my opinion the answer to 2. is "no" (because I don't see why Ext<br>
> would choose GPLv3 for ExtJS and they did not want application code<br>
> using Ext to be released under GPLv3), but I'd be happy to be said<br>
> otherwise.]<br>
><br>
<br>
</div>This makes it a valid question then. At a glance, I think many would<br>
assume the purpose of the application exception is to allow application<br>
code an exception to the GPL. I understand that things are not clear<br>
where they talk about independent works. (And I think this is part of<br>
why RedHat considers the exception invalid.)<br>
<br>
What we want to know is their intention, so I think it is a good<br>
question to ask.<br>
<font color="#888888"><br>
Tim<br>
</font><div><div></div><div class="h5"><br>
> On Friday, May 1, 2009, Tim Schaub <<a href="mailto:tschaub@opengeo.org">tschaub@opengeo.org</a>> wrote:<br>
>> Hey-<br>
>><br>
>> So we have some outstanding questions regarding licensing. Instead of<br>
>> continuing to speculate, I think it would be best to ask the Ext<br>
>> licensing folks directly. Below is a draft. I don't have a direct<br>
>> contact - if someone else does, please let me know.<br>
>><br>
>> Please send feedback. If I don't send this out today, my next day in<br>
>> the office is May 11 and I will send it out then (if nobody else has).<br>
>><br>
>> After writing the draft below and reading more, I am pretty convinced<br>
>> that the answer to 1 is "no" and the answer to 2 is "yes." Eric, you<br>
>> had particular concerns about the application exception. Please rework<br>
>> the question if I have not captured your concern. At this point, I'm<br>
>> most concern about getting permission to use the name GeoExt. I'd be<br>
>> happy to remove either of the other questions if others think the<br>
>> answers are clear.<br>
>><br>
>> Thanks,<br>
>> Tim<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Draft of message to Ext licensing folks<br>
>> ---------------------------------------<br>
>><br>
>> Hello-<br>
>><br>
>> I am writing on behalf of a community of developers working on a project<br>
>> that extends ExtJS (2.x) classes with mapping functionality from the<br>
>> OpenLayers library. We have a number of questions related to licensing<br>
>> (and intellectual property) that we are hoping to get answers on.<br>
>><br>
>> First, we have been calling our project GeoExt, and wanted to make sure<br>
>> the name was appropriate for us to use. Below is a mockup of our issue<br>
>> tracker with a logo at the head.<br>
>><br>
>> <a href="http://img.skitch.com/20090409-jksimuqt2axkrciw386bx2n3f4.png" target="_blank">http://img.skitch.com/20090409-jksimuqt2axkrciw386bx2n3f4.png</a>.<br>
>><br>
>> Please let us know if the name and look of the logo are acceptable for<br>
>> us to use.<br>
>><br>
>> Our library [1] extends Ext components and data utilities with mapping<br>
>> functionality from OpenLayers [2]. Our plan has been to distribute<br>
>> GeoExt under a BSD license and to include OpenLayers (with a BSDish<br>
>> license) in our releases. We will provide instructions with our<br>
>> releases on obtaining Ext from <a href="http://extjs.com" target="_blank">extjs.com</a>. Our understanding is that we<br>
>> meet the terms of the Open Source License Exception for Development [3].<br>
>><br>
>> We have received some questions from interested application developers<br>
>> regarding licensing of applications built with GeoExt and Ext. I'll<br>
>> enumerate them below. Thanks for any answers you are able to provide.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> 1) If an application includes a script that is a minimized build of the<br>
>> ExtJS library that is not produced by the tools hosted here<br>
>> <a href="http://extjs.com/products/extjs/build/" target="_blank">http://extjs.com/products/extjs/build/</a> (e.g. compressed from the source<br>
>> with YUICompressor), this looks to be considered "conveying non-source<br>
>> forms" under GPL v3. In this case, is the application provider<br>
>> responsible for doing more than including a reference to the license and<br>
>> instructions on getting the source from <a href="http://extjs.com" target="_blank">extjs.com</a>?<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> 2) A typical application would include Ext and application code that<br>
>> calls Ext methods. The Open Source License Exception for Applications<br>
>> [4] suggests that code that is independent of the library may be<br>
>> distributed under one of the listed licenses (point 2.a and the<br>
>> paragraph preceding it). Is application code that relies on Ext (calls<br>
>> methods and accesses properties) considered independent and can this<br>
>> code be distributed under one of the listed licenses (assuming other<br>
>> terms are met)?<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> [1] <a href="http://svn.geoext.org/core/trunk/geoext/lib/" target="_blank">http://svn.geoext.org/core/trunk/geoext/lib/</a><br>
>> [2] <a href="http://openlayers.org/" target="_blank">http://openlayers.org/</a><br>
>> [3] <a href="http://extjs.com/products/ux-exception.php" target="_blank">http://extjs.com/products/ux-exception.php</a><br>
>> [4] <a href="http://extjs.com/products/floss-exception.php" target="_blank">http://extjs.com/products/floss-exception.php</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>> Tim Schaub<br>
>> OpenGeo - <a href="http://opengeo.org" target="_blank">http://opengeo.org</a><br>
>> Expert service straight from the developers.<br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
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>> <a href="mailto:Psc@geoext.org">Psc@geoext.org</a><br>
>> <a href="http://www.geoext.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/psc" target="_blank">http://www.geoext.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/psc</a><br>
>><br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
Tim Schaub<br>
OpenGeo - <a href="http://opengeo.org" target="_blank">http://opengeo.org</a><br>
Expert service straight from the developers.<br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>CTO Geospatial Camptocamp SA<br>Cédric Moullet<br>PSE A<br>CH-1015 Lausanne<br><a href="http://www.camptocamp.com">www.camptocamp.com</a> / <a href="http://www.mapfish.org">www.mapfish.org</a> / <a href="http://twitter.com/cedricmoullet">twitter.com/cedricmoullet</a> / <a href="http://mapfishblog.blogspot.com/">mapfishblog.blogspot.com/</a><br>
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